collapse

Author Topic: DOTY 2017 Changes...  (Read 3194 times)

Offline BigJim

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1856
  • No White Flags.
DOTY 2017 Changes...
« on: September 29, 2016, 09:52:31 AM »
Just a heads up for any NCUH members that may be interested in playing DOTY in 2017...

http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=75105.0

Long story short, we will be adding Stripers taken from the Ocean as a species, AND making it a best of 15 species comp...so your 15 highest scoring entries will count towards your total points instead of ALL of your entries counting.

Our hope is that the best of 15 format will allow divers to still be able to be competitive in DOTY, without having to kill species they are opposed to taking (for whatever reason)...but will still be foreced to push themselves to explore and dive outside of their personal comfort zone to take 15 species that are big enough to be competitive.

Looking forward to seeing how these changes play out in 2017 and beyond.

Sincerely,

Jim




Offline the_derek

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 959
Re: DOTY 2017 Changes...
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2016, 10:13:20 AM »
Hey Jim,

any thoughts on just having Striper open fresh or ocean? for those of you that live by the water, you have an oblivious advantage to getting wet more often, but if you open the Striper to fresh water too, then us in-landers have our close water too. Just and idea.
Death is very often referred to as a good career move.

-Buddy Holly

Insta  @_the_derek_

Offline BigJim

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1856
  • No White Flags.
Re: DOTY 2017 Changes...
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2016, 11:07:24 AM »
Hey Jim,

any thoughts on just having Striper open fresh or ocean? for those of you that live by the water, you have an oblivious advantage to getting wet more often, but if you open the Striper to fresh water too, then us in-landers have our close water too. Just and idea.

Hey Derek,

This is what I wrote over on the NCKA thread about why we are just going with Ocean Stripers for DOTY:

Quote
It became legal to spear Stripers year round in the Ocean (and in certain FW areas in certain months) in 2013.

Shooting Stripers in Freshwater has been VERY controversial, and while (as long as the various rules and regs are followed) it is totally legal we do not think DOTY should add them as a species while their take is so controversial.

Stripers from the Ocean are a much different story, and my first hand experience with surf casters and other angler groups (I have even been participating on the www.StripersOnline.com forum) has been overwhelmingly positive.

These are beautiful, delicious fish and can be taken by any diver willing to put in the time in the surf, and I have seen reports and pics of them being taken from SLO all the way up into Humboldt.

We are not 100% sure on the Points Per Inch (PPI) yet but will get it ironed out before the start of 2017.

AOTY has Stripers at 5.5 PPI, so the three below would be 236.5, 235.125 and 184.25...

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2310

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2316

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2317

These other ~24/25 inch fish would be worth about 132/137.5 points which seems about right for their modest size:

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2259

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2318

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2338

We are looking forward to seeing future DOTY divers get involved in this fishery if they choose to.

For sure living closer to the ocean gives a person playing DOTY advantage but since ALL the rest of the DOTY species are in the ocean, it is really an ocean competition...

Opening up FW bodies of water (and the take of species from FW) is a direction that we are not comfortable going.

FW spearing is a whole different can of worms, and while we personally do not have anything against it, we would have to defend DOTY and its rules/format to anybody who is against it...and there are plenty of people out there who are against it for various reasons....and some of those people are active on NCKA where the game is housed, and so that is a bridge that we are not ready to cross at this time.

And with the change of format to top 15, if players choose to not put in the time/effort to target a certain species (for whatever reason), they will now have the option to replace that species with a different one...

Hope that makes sense...

Sincerely,

Jim

Offline MATT MATTISON

  • Dreaming of the day abalone is re-opened
  • Administrator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8584
  • Diving My HAPPY PLACE
    • http://norcalunderwaterhunters.com/forum/MGalleryItem.php?id=1815
Re: DOTY 2017 Changes...
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2016, 11:32:34 AM »
Hey Jim,

any thoughts on just having Striper open fresh or ocean? for those of you that live by the water, you have an oblivious advantage to getting wet more often, but if you open the Striper to fresh water too, then us in-landers have our close water too. Just and idea.

Hey Derek,

This is what I wrote over on the NCKA thread about why we are just going with Ocean Stripers for DOTY:

Quote
It became legal to spear Stripers year round in the Ocean (and in certain FW areas in certain months) in 2013.

Shooting Stripers in Freshwater has been VERY controversial, and while (as long as the various rules and regs are followed) it is totally legal we do not think DOTY should add them as a species while their take is so controversial.

Stripers from the Ocean are a much different story, and my first hand experience with surf casters and other angler groups (I have even been participating on the www.StripersOnline.com forum) has been overwhelmingly positive.

These are beautiful, delicious fish and can be taken by any diver willing to put in the time in the surf, and I have seen reports and pics of them being taken from SLO all the way up into Humboldt.

We are not 100% sure on the Points Per Inch (PPI) yet but will get it ironed out before the start of 2017.

AOTY has Stripers at 5.5 PPI, so the three below would be 236.5, 235.125 and 184.25...

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2310

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2316

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2317

These other ~24/25 inch fish would be worth about 132/137.5 points which seems about right for their modest size:

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2259

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2318

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2338

We are looking forward to seeing future DOTY divers get involved in this fishery if they choose to.

For sure living closer to the ocean gives a person playing DOTY advantage but since ALL the rest of the DOTY species are in the ocean, it is really an ocean competition...

Opening up FW bodies of water (and the take of species from FW) is a direction that we are not comfortable going.

FW spearing is a whole different can of worms, and while we personally do not have anything against it, we would have to defend DOTY and its rules/format to anybody who is against it...and there are plenty of people out there who are against it for various reasons....and some of those people are active on NCKA where the game is housed, and so that is a bridge that we are not ready to cross at this time.

And with the change of format to top 15, if players choose to not put in the time/effort to target a certain species (for whatever reason), they will now have the option to replace that species with a different one...

Hope that makes sense...

Sincerely,

Jim

so I guess we are still letting the hook and line guys bully us dives in the fresh water !!! sorry jim I could not bite my tung on this one. If it is legal it should be allowed especially if you are allowing that species of fish !!! just another reason why I cannot stand NCKA ! but then again I do not why I even care as I do not par take in this event
CHECK OUT MY YOU TUBE CHANNEL AT:
https://www.youtube.com/user/mattmattison/videos

THANK YOU TO MY AWESOME SPONSORS

Offline BigJim

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1856
  • No White Flags.
Re: DOTY 2017 Changes...
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2016, 11:37:15 AM »
Hey Jim,

any thoughts on just having Striper open fresh or ocean? for those of you that live by the water, you have an oblivious advantage to getting wet more often, but if you open the Striper to fresh water too, then us in-landers have our close water too. Just and idea.

Hey Derek,

This is what I wrote over on the NCKA thread about why we are just going with Ocean Stripers for DOTY:

Quote
It became legal to spear Stripers year round in the Ocean (and in certain FW areas in certain months) in 2013.

Shooting Stripers in Freshwater has been VERY controversial, and while (as long as the various rules and regs are followed) it is totally legal we do not think DOTY should add them as a species while their take is so controversial.

Stripers from the Ocean are a much different story, and my first hand experience with surf casters and other angler groups (I have even been participating on the www.StripersOnline.com forum) has been overwhelmingly positive.

These are beautiful, delicious fish and can be taken by any diver willing to put in the time in the surf, and I have seen reports and pics of them being taken from SLO all the way up into Humboldt.

We are not 100% sure on the Points Per Inch (PPI) yet but will get it ironed out before the start of 2017.

AOTY has Stripers at 5.5 PPI, so the three below would be 236.5, 235.125 and 184.25...

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2310

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2316

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2317

These other ~24/25 inch fish would be worth about 132/137.5 points which seems about right for their modest size:

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2259

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2318

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2338

We are looking forward to seeing future DOTY divers get involved in this fishery if they choose to.

For sure living closer to the ocean gives a person playing DOTY advantage but since ALL the rest of the DOTY species are in the ocean, it is really an ocean competition...

Opening up FW bodies of water (and the take of species from FW) is a direction that we are not comfortable going.

FW spearing is a whole different can of worms, and while we personally do not have anything against it, we would have to defend DOTY and its rules/format to anybody who is against it...and there are plenty of people out there who are against it for various reasons....and some of those people are active on NCKA where the game is housed, and so that is a bridge that we are not ready to cross at this time.

And with the change of format to top 15, if players choose to not put in the time/effort to target a certain species (for whatever reason), they will now have the option to replace that species with a different one...

Hope that makes sense...

Sincerely,

Jim

so I guess we are still letting the hook and line guys bully us dives in the fresh water !!! sorry jim I could not bite my tung on this one. If it is legal it should be allowed especially if you are allowing that species of fish !!! just another reason why I cannot stand NCKA ! but then again I do not why I even care as I do not par take in this event

LOL!

Ok Matt.

You're right, you don't participate so you shouldn't care.


Offline BigJim

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1856
  • No White Flags.
Re: DOTY 2017 Changes...
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2016, 12:01:30 PM »
Hey Jim,

any thoughts on just having Striper open fresh or ocean? for those of you that live by the water, you have an oblivious advantage to getting wet more often, but if you open the Striper to fresh water too, then us in-landers have our close water too. Just and idea.

Hey Derek,

This is what I wrote over on the NCKA thread about why we are just going with Ocean Stripers for DOTY:

Quote
It became legal to spear Stripers year round in the Ocean (and in certain FW areas in certain months) in 2013.

Shooting Stripers in Freshwater has been VERY controversial, and while (as long as the various rules and regs are followed) it is totally legal we do not think DOTY should add them as a species while their take is so controversial.

Stripers from the Ocean are a much different story, and my first hand experience with surf casters and other angler groups (I have even been participating on the www.StripersOnline.com forum) has been overwhelmingly positive.

These are beautiful, delicious fish and can be taken by any diver willing to put in the time in the surf, and I have seen reports and pics of them being taken from SLO all the way up into Humboldt.

We are not 100% sure on the Points Per Inch (PPI) yet but will get it ironed out before the start of 2017.

AOTY has Stripers at 5.5 PPI, so the three below would be 236.5, 235.125 and 184.25...

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2310

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2316

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2317

These other ~24/25 inch fish would be worth about 132/137.5 points which seems about right for their modest size:

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2259

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2318

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2338

We are looking forward to seeing future DOTY divers get involved in this fishery if they choose to.

For sure living closer to the ocean gives a person playing DOTY advantage but since ALL the rest of the DOTY species are in the ocean, it is really an ocean competition...

Opening up FW bodies of water (and the take of species from FW) is a direction that we are not comfortable going.

FW spearing is a whole different can of worms, and while we personally do not have anything against it, we would have to defend DOTY and its rules/format to anybody who is against it...and there are plenty of people out there who are against it for various reasons....and some of those people are active on NCKA where the game is housed, and so that is a bridge that we are not ready to cross at this time.

And with the change of format to top 15, if players choose to not put in the time/effort to target a certain species (for whatever reason), they will now have the option to replace that species with a different one...

Hope that makes sense...

Sincerely,

Jim

so I guess we are still letting the hook and line guys bully us dives in the fresh water !!! sorry jim I could not bite my tung on this one. If it is legal it should be allowed especially if you are allowing that species of fish !!! just another reason why I cannot stand NCKA ! but then again I do not why I even care as I do not par take in this event

Agreed. I've lost most interest in FW striper but it seems crazy to not allow it if you're opening up stripers, just because of some H&L guys crying about it.

Any other species only allowed to be taken from a certain place to save hurt feelings?

Nobody on NCKA is complaining about it.

Nobody on NCKA is bullying me about it.

Nobody on NCKA has expressed hurt feelings about it.

This is a decision that we (Matt Lopez and I) have made after discussing it, and after listening and observing and watching these past 4 years since the striped bass fishery has been open to spearing.

If people don't like the decision, that is fine, they can choose not to participate.

 :)

Sincerely,

Jim
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 03:03:21 PM by BigJim »

Offline BigJim

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1856
  • No White Flags.
Re: DOTY 2017 Changes...
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2016, 12:58:49 PM »
But your decisions sounds like I was based on them complaining. I wasn't saying that they are complaining about it now. Just that it seems that was obviously the biggest influential factor in you and Matt's decision.

I see what you're saying, but while public perception (NCKA or whoever) is obviously one factor it is not the only factor.

It is an ocean competition, not a FW competition.

All the other species are in the ocean, not FW.

Honestly, I have been hesitant to add stripers (even ocean) stripers at all...as evidenced by not adding them in 2013, 2014, or 2015.

Just because a species is legal to take does not mean that it is necessarily the right thing to do to include it in a competition and thus potentially encourage people to harvest it if they otherwise wouldn't have.

Angel and leopard sharks and wolf eels are three other species I can think of that are legal to take but are not commonly included in comps.

After listening/reading/observing on multiple forums for over four years, I personally have made a decision not to hunt stripers in FW, and will not include them in a comp that I am primarily responsible for running.

Ideally we hoped these changes would be well received and that people would be stoked on them,  but if people are not (for whatever reason) that is OK as well...

As long as the rules/format are clear up front each diver can decide whether or not they wish to play, and we will just worry about those that do decide to play.

 :)

Sincerely,

Jim
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 03:03:45 PM by BigJim »

Offline JackSquirt

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 479
  • We're life takers and heart breakers
Re: DOTY 2017 Changes...
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2016, 08:47:07 AM »
Would you consider allowing gutted fish to be submitted? As long as the fish still has a spine, pretty sure removing the intestines won't elongate the measurement on the fish.

Thanks for all of your patience Jim
Change is inevitable, growth is optional.

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAK_Ey3-Y0OQp06SLvni-pw

Offline Nick F

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 306
Re: DOTY 2017 Changes...
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2016, 09:43:03 AM »
Jim, I enthusiastically applaud the best-fifteen rule. I know you haven't been too keen about that particular change, but it makes a huge difference for me. It won't make me any more competitive, but having even that small margin of flexibility will relieve the pressure I've felt in previous years to take fish I would otherwise have no interest in taking.

I also appreciate how much thought you put into this. Thanks very much!

Offline BigJim

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1856
  • No White Flags.
Re: DOTY 2017 Changes...
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2016, 02:50:19 PM »
Would you consider allowing gutted fish to be submitted? As long as the fish still has a spine, pretty sure removing the intestines won't elongate the measurement on the fish.

Thanks for all of your patience Jim

Hey Jack,

Yeah the problem with gutting is that often the cut to get the guts out ends up cutting the throat section which can result in an increase in length if manipulated...

Since the game can (and has been) decided by as small a margin as a 1/4 inch we feel that it is best to stick with current rules about no gutting or scaling (for ID purposes) before pic is taken.

It is possible to pull out the stomach with the gills with a little practice and if you are really concerned about the meat quality.

What I have done in the past is measure fish on yak to see which ones are biggest or upgrades and gut/gill/scale all the rest...that way I am only leaving (usually at most) one or two fish with guts/scales on them while paddling in to take pic, and then gut/scale after pic and before throwing in cooler with ice.

I hope that makes sense...

Jim, I enthusiastically applaud the best-fifteen rule. I know you haven't been too keen about that particular change, but it makes a huge difference for me. It won't make me any more competitive, but having even that small margin of flexibility will relieve the pressure I've felt in previous years to take fish I would otherwise have no interest in taking.

I also appreciate how much thought you put into this. Thanks very much!

Thanks for the vote of confidence Nick!

 :)

Sincerely,

Jim

Offline the_derek

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 959
Re: DOTY 2017 Changes...
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2016, 03:45:39 PM »
Jim, I enthusiastically applaud the best-fifteen rule. I know you haven't been too keen about that particular change, but it makes a huge difference for me. It won't make me any more competitive, but having even that small margin of flexibility will relieve the pressure I've felt in previous years to take fish I would otherwise have no interest in taking.

I also appreciate how much thought you put into this. Thanks very much!

+1, Completely agree with nick on this
Death is very often referred to as a good career move.

-Buddy Holly

Insta  @_the_derek_

 

noob spearo podcast

THE SPEAR Spearfishing Podcast

Support the NCUWH Website

Help support the NorCal Underwater Hunters Website by donating today.

Your decision to contribute is strictly voluntary. If you see value in this website: meeting new dive buddies, posting dive reports, a place to post your pictures, sharing great fish stories, plan out of town hunting trips, etc..., then please contribute. All proceeds go towards supporting the costs to host and maintain this awesome website.

If you prefer to send a check or money order, please PM me, MATT MATTISON, for the address.

Thanks!
Matt