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Author Topic: Safty and Emergency Training  (Read 2718 times)

Offline boogiebrdrsteve

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Safty and Emergency Training
« on: May 15, 2016, 10:27:23 AM »
Anybody know where to receive training to be able to be a more responsible diver. I know we have a F11 class and other free diving classes but is there any classes primarily teach us how to help another diver who has had shallow water blackout or who has actually drowned. This has been on my mind for a while and I believe as divers we have a responsibility to our dive buddies and other ocean goers to be prepared and just as important to know that if something happens to us that our partner will have the ability to get us back to our family and friends.

Offline lazyhook

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Re: Safty and Emergency Training
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2016, 10:50:40 AM »
I would start with just straight up CPR or first response training.  Don't assume that just because somebody has an incident on the water that it's because of SWB, drowning, etc. directly connected to being on/in water.  Definitely being on the water adds in other factors that make rescue more difficult and can start the initial chain of events, but the simple physical nature of the activities and constrictive rubber suits we wear can be enough of a stressor for something such as a heart attack.

The biggest impact for the FII or PFI training is to help recognize signs of SWB or other conditions so that they don't continue along the chain into an actual drowning or cardiac issue. 

But, if things have already progressed beyond that OR the whole chain was initiated by something such as a heart attack, then the only possible help are classical CPR, airway management, AED, etc.

Offline DG

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Re: Safty and Emergency Training
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2016, 11:11:31 AM »
I would start with just straight up CPR or first response training.  Don't assume that just because somebody has an incident on the water that it's because of SWB, drowning, etc. directly connected to being on/in water.  Definitely being on the water adds in other factors that make rescue more difficult and can start the initial chain of events, but the simple physical nature of the activities and constrictive rubber suits we wear can be enough of a stressor for something such as a heart attack.

The biggest impact for the FII or PFI training is to help recognize signs of SWB or other conditions so that they don't continue along the chain into an actual drowning or cardiac issue. 

But, if things have already progressed beyond that OR the whole chain was initiated by something such as a heart attack, then the only possible help are classical CPR, airway management, AED, etc.
True. Definitely a CPR/first aid class in general is a good idea. The Fii class teaches ways to keep one's head out of the water while you determine if it's a SWB or a more serious medical emergency.  Not saying SWB is not serious but with a dive buddy near by it can be quick and uneventful. 

Go over other threads and suggestions on safety.  Have access to a float or PFD if you are solo and you can't get the person to gain consciousness.  Have access and ability to call for help.  Whistle, cell phone, VHF, spot connect, other emergency beacon.  This will get medical to respond quicker while you asses the situation more. 

As you read on recent threads.  It can be hard to perform actual CPR by yourself and it may be difficult to get another kayaker or diver back on a kayak.  So you may have to swim them to a rock or shore but having access to the other communication devices will be a big help. 

Offline DG

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Re: Safty and Emergency Training
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2016, 12:59:33 PM »
What's an F11 class? Sounds high speed. I want to take it.
What do you mean you are the teacher.  It's how to render first aid to yourself after breaking your f10 with a hammer and smashing your thumb.  You know f11. 

Offline Rob102

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Re: Safty and Emergency Training
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2016, 01:51:49 PM »
I think lazyhook nailed it.

Offline Mk7eddie

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Re: Safty and Emergency Training
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2016, 02:44:53 PM »
Here's what I've learned from my six months diving.

1. Listen to your body and respect your limits. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should every single time. My last trip out, i was diving down to 30 ft and holding my breath for 30-45 seconds. As a new diver, I knew was really pushing myself to get a cabezon I was stalking in a hole. My last dive of the day I got my cab but didn't realize I was down for longer than I wanted to be. When i got to the surface I felt myself beginning to get light-headed. I called it right there, hung out in kayak and watched my buddy dive.
2. Freedive course.
3. CPR training. CPR techniques change all the time.
4. Diligently practice one up, one down. A lot of people get lazy with this one, myself included. It can be very enticing to just stay within 50-100ft of each other and occasionally look for each other every time you come up.
5. Learn to read swells. Use NOAA point forecast/ ww.swellinfo.com for a good outlook on what a day on the water will look like.
6. Listen to your gut. If you/it just doesn't feel right, maybe it's time to call it a day early or even before you get in the water. They're just fish.
7. Take what you have learned and practice SWB rescue drills with your dive buddies in a pool? (something I still want to get out and do).
8. Don't watch Jaws the day before you go diving.  :o

If any of this sounds retarded, please correct me.
Owner of Black Lagoon Dive Lights

Offline lazyhook

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Re: Safty and Emergency Training
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2016, 03:56:17 PM »
All the posters have some good points.  And, I would never try to discourage anybody from getting additional training (as long as that training doesn't provide a false sense of capabilities or security).

Just the fact that you're even thinking about what to do ahead of time is a huge help.  There are a couple of other things I keep in mind when I go out.

1)  Always have a backup plan for exiting the water in case your launch area isn't available (either due to changing conditions or if you've paddled/boated/swam far away from your launch location).

2) Be willing to ditch every single piece of gear you have to save yourself or somebody else... including kayak, fishing/spearing gear, and diving equipment if necessary.  I even had an extremely unusual case 15+ years ago while on scuba where ditching my tank/reg/bc was my best option in a particular situation.  So, it goes without saying that I obviously wouldn't ever hesitate to ditch a weightbelt.

3)  Plan for how to get help if necessary.  For example, from SpecialK650's report yesterday of the incident at Russian Gulch, deep in that canyon there is no cell phone service.  The closest landline phone is at the top of the top near the ranger kiosk (at least the last time I was there it still worked).  If you or anybody enlisted to help can't get the whole EMS support network started quickly, then you need to plan for that.  In that same area of the coast, I would have low expectations for reaching anybody on a handheld marine VHF radio.  That doesn't mean that you can't ever dive in remote locations.  Just that you should think about how to call for help ahead of time so that you don't waste any time on a method with low probability in case of an incident. But, it does mean that the more remote the location, the more conservative I am.

4)  Don't expect that in-water chest compressions as part of CPR will do anything worthwhile.  It's taught (or at least mentioned) in rescue diver courses, but isn't effective.  In my opinion, much better to not waste the time and just get them to a solid surface and AED faster.  Rescue breaths and airway management are totally appropriate and are worth the time/effort.

4a)  Don't expect to be able to find a pulse on somebody who is cold/wet or when you're also cold/wet.  So, for any first response/CPR protocols that call for checking a pulse, that could also be wasted time/effort.

Offline Rob102

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Re: Safty and Emergency Training
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2016, 04:30:01 PM »
If Mattison is nearby with his shark shield, maybe he could give you a jump start.

Offline lazyhook

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Re: Safty and Emergency Training
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2016, 04:51:24 PM »
Holy f. I really want to know where you witnessed a professional class that taught compressions in the water.


If you do take a CPR class don't worry so much about the numbers and breaths and all that. Just focus on high quality solid compressions with as little interruptions as possible. The ratios don't matter much

Ha !!   Fair enough.  Some of my training certs are old enough to drink alcohol in all 50 states.  I did leave myself some wiggle room by stating that some people/classes just mention it these days.

As for CPR, I'll wholeheartedly second your recommendation.  Personally, I've just completely gone over to compression-only.  And, I would only stop that for an AED.  (and assuming I believe that there is a patent airway).  No ratios to worry about, so I can just try to concentrate on quality compressions.

Of course, if there is an ALS crew around, then stopping chest compressions for other advanced treatments is appropriate.  We could have a whole different thread about the differences in techniques and philosophy between wilderness first response vs. emergency room/ambulance.

 

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