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Author Topic: Ear problem  (Read 5640 times)

Offline natraps

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Re: Ear problem
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2015, 10:52:25 PM »
With a hood on your wetsuit, it's hard to think cold water would be the problem. If I can't equalize my ears, I stop diving deep. Thus far I have never had an issue with barotrauma. If it does not feel right, stay shallow.
The Lord has given us the seafood; let us enjoy it.

Offline Rob102

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Re: Ear problems
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2015, 12:37:49 AM »
With a hood on your wetsuit, it's hard to think cold water would be the problem. If I can't equalize my ears, I stop diving deep. Thus far I have never had an issue with barotrauma. If it does not feel right, stay shallow.

The greatest pressure change occurs in the first 33'. Pressure increases according to the inverse square law. The deeper you go the less effort required to equalize. Ears can rupture at 10'.

More often than not a diver whom is not used to the feeling of increased pressure at depth will mistakenly exert too much force in an effort to clear an ear that is already equalized. This is what causes many middle ear problems in divers not used to depth, not the depth itself. 

At extreme depths however, lung volume is too small and there is not enough available to equalize requiring the diver to reverse pack or flood to equalize.

Offline DG

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Re: Ear problem
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2015, 06:36:28 AM »
Thanks for all the feedback.  It's hard to get into specialist over on the coast and it wasn't happening this week.  So since reporting the issue it has slowly gotten better. I am letting the ear rest a few days.  I very well could have pushed to hard like Rob said.  Either way it's just a hard lesson of the dangers of diving. My wife's always worried about sharks and not being able to hear her was a whole new thing to worry about.  Even though it came in handy a few times I wouldn't want permanent damage.

Offline _MikeM_

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Re: Ear problems
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2015, 08:19:57 AM »
With a hood on your wetsuit, it's hard to think cold water would be the problem. If I can't equalize my ears, I stop diving deep. Thus far I have never had an issue with barotrauma. If it does not feel right, stay shallow.

The greatest pressure change occurs in the first 33'. Pressure increases according to the inverse square law. The deeper you go the less effort required to equalize. Ears can rupture at 10'.



Inverse square law? Not sure what you mean by that but:

The formula that gives the P pressure on an object submerged in a fluid is:

P = r * g * h

where:
r (rho) is the density of the fluid,
g is the acceleration of gravity
h is the height of the fluid above the object

Every 33'= 1 ATA of pressure or 14.5 pounds per square inch. So a diver experience 2 ATA at 33' (one ATA from atmosphere plus one ATA of water pressure, at 66' a diver experiences 3 ATA (one from the atmosphere and 2 from the water pressure). It's a linear relationship.

Water pressure and compressed air on the other hand, follows Boyles Law; Air volume= 1/pressure. So at sea level the volume of air in your ears/sinuses is 1/1=1, at 33' 1/2=.5, at 66' 1/3=.333. So in that sense the greatest change occurs in the first 33'.


« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 08:30:02 AM by _MikeM_ »

Offline Nick F

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Re: Ear problem
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2015, 09:13:08 AM »
Glad to hear it's getting better.

Offline John

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Re: Ear problems
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2015, 11:16:21 AM »
With a hood on your wetsuit, it's hard to think cold water would be the problem. If I can't equalize my ears, I stop diving deep. Thus far I have never had an issue with barotrauma. If it does not feel right, stay shallow.

The greatest pressure change occurs in the first 33'. Pressure increases according to the inverse square law. The deeper you go the less effort required to equalize. Ears can rupture at 10'.



Inverse square law? Not sure what you mean by that but:

The formula that gives the P pressure on an object submerged in a fluid is:

P = r * g * h

where:
r (rho) is the density of the fluid,
g is the acceleration of gravity
h is the height of the fluid above the object

Every 33'= 1 ATA of pressure or 14.5 pounds per square inch. So a diver experience 2 ATA at 33' (one ATA from atmosphere plus one ATA of water pressure, at 66' a diver experiences 3 ATA (one from the atmosphere and 2 from the water pressure). It's a linear relationship.

Water pressure and compressed air on the other hand, follows Boyles Law; Air volume= 1/pressure. So at sea level the volume of air in your ears/sinuses is 1/1=1, at 33' 1/2=.5, at 66' 1/3=.333. So in that sense the greatest change occurs in the first 33'.

This is precisely why I only dive on days when gravity is accelerating moderately or even just coasting
Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it. -Orwell

Offline _MikeM_

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Re: Ear problems
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2015, 11:27:44 AM »

This is precisely why I only dive on days when gravity is accelerating moderately or even just coasting

Fair enough.

For anyone who cares:

"A free-falling object has an acceleration of 9.8 m/s/s, downward (on Earth). This numerical value for the acceleration of a free-falling object is such an important value that it is given a special name. It is known as the acceleration of gravity - the acceleration for any object moving under the sole influence of gravity. A matter of fact, this quantity known as the acceleration of gravity is such an important quantity that physicists have a special symbol to denote it - the symbol g." Retrieved from http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/1DKin/Lesson-5/Acceleration-of-Gravity

I'm done geeking out....

OP, I hope your ear issues resolve, good luck!

Offline Rob102

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Re: Ear problems
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2015, 12:53:15 PM »
With a hood on your wetsuit, it's hard to think cold water would be the problem. If I can't equalize my ears, I stop diving deep. Thus far I have never had an issue with barotrauma. If it does not feel right, stay shallow.

The greatest pressure change occurs in the first 33'. Pressure increases according to the inverse square law. The deeper you go the less effort required to equalize. Ears can rupture at 10'.



Inverse square law? Not sure what you mean by that but:

The formula that gives the P pressure on an object submerged in a fluid is:

P = r * g * h

where:
r (rho) is the density of the fluid,
g is the acceleration of gravity
h is the height of the fluid above the object

Every 33'= 1 ATA of pressure or 14.5 pounds per square inch. So a diver experience 2 ATA at 33' (one ATA from atmosphere plus one ATA of water pressure, at 66' a diver experiences 3 ATA (one from the atmosphere and 2 from the water pressure). It's a linear relationship.

Water pressure and compressed air on the other hand, follows Boyles Law; Air volume= 1/pressure. So at sea level the volume of air in your ears/sinuses is 1/1=1, at 33' 1/2=.5, at 66' 1/3=.333. So in that sense the greatest change occurs in the first 33'.

Your right, it's not inverse square law, volume is inversely proportionate to depth, but the change is not linear, it's a hyperbola.

Let's see if I can explain better:

You only need to overcome the change in volume of air by allowing air into the eustacian tubes to equalize pressure behind the ear to the pressure outside the ear. It has little to do with pressure that you apply to the ear. As you go deeper the volume decreases less (it is not linear) so you add less air behind the ear to equalize. As you continue to descend the amount that the volume decreases is a fraction of what it decreased previously and the amount of force required to equalize decreases as well. The compression slows with increased depth and so does the frequency and pressure required to equalize.

I apologize if I'm not explaining this well, so I'll just say that it takes more force and more frequent equalization at a shallower depth that it does at a deeper depth until you simply run out of volume to send air from the lungs to the eustacian tubes. Ear injuries often occur when divers not used to the feeling of pressure at depth try to forcefully clear their ears. It isn't due to depth, it's improper equalization. Most people can't dive because they don't know how to equalize. Many who try to equalize often do it wrong and injur themselves. I perforated my ear drum at 95 feet by pushing too hard. Now I can dive that deep and equalize hands free. The first 30 feet I clear ten times, the last 30 feet I clear about three times.

Offline _MikeM_

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Re: Ear problems
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2015, 01:55:11 PM »

Your right, it's not inverse square law, volume is inversely proportionate to depth, but the change is not linear, it's a hyperbola.


The relationship between pressure on an object and depth is a linear relationship (P=r*g*h). The relationship between volume of a gas and depth is a power function (f(x)=x^-1), so yes, graphically it would be a hyperbola.

I don't doubt you know all that Rob. I just thought the comment "The greatest pressure change occurs in the first 33'" might be misunderstood by some.

I think we're on the same page just splitting hairs  :P
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 02:20:06 PM by _MikeM_ »

Offline Malibu_Two

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Re: Ear problem
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2015, 05:28:07 PM »
Glad to hear it's getting better.

Me too. Hearing loss is scary and a very isolating feeling.
Buy these:

http://www.amazon.com/JBL-Vented-Preformed-Protective-Earplugs/dp/B0054MXWQ8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1440808016&sr=8-1&keywords=jbl+hydro+seals+aqua+plugs

Not sure they'll help, but they seem to have helped me. They actually come in sizes. I bought them from a shop and got a Large.

Offline Abalonejoe

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Re: Ear problems
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2015, 06:06:53 PM »
With a hood on your wetsuit, it's hard to think cold water would be the problem. If I can't equalize my ears, I stop diving deep. Thus far I have never had an issue with barotrauma. If it does not feel right, stay shallow.

The greatest pressure change occurs in the first 33'. Pressure increases according to the inverse square law. The deeper you go the less effort required to equalize. Ears can rupture at 10'.



Inverse square law? Not sure what you mean by that but:

The formula that gives the P pressure on an object submerged in a fluid is:

P = r * g * h

where:
r (rho) is the density of the fluid,
g is the acceleration of gravity
h is the height of the fluid above the object

Every 33'= 1 ATA of pressure or 14.5 pounds per square inch. So a diver experience 2 ATA at 33' (one ATA from atmosphere plus one ATA of water pressure, at 66' a diver experiences 3 ATA (one from the atmosphere and 2 from the water pressure). It's a linear relationship.

Water pressure and compressed air on the other hand, follows Boyles Law; Air volume= 1/pressure. So at sea level the volume of air in your ears/sinuses is 1/1=1, at 33' 1/2=.5, at 66' 1/3=.333. So in that sense the greatest change occurs in the first 33'.

Your right, it's not inverse square law, volume is inversely proportionate to depth, but the change is not linear, it's a hyperbola.

Let's see if I can explain better:

You only need to overcome the change in volume of air by allowing air into the eustacian tubes to equalize pressure behind the ear to the pressure outside the ear. It has little to do with pressure that you apply to the ear. As you go deeper the volume decreases less (it is not linear) so you add less air behind the ear to equalize. As you continue to descend the amount that the volume decreases is a fraction of what it decreased previously and the amount of force required to equalize decreases as well. The compression slows with increased depth and so does the frequency and pressure required to equalize.

I apologize if I'm not explaining this well, so I'll just say that it takes more force and more frequent equalization at a shallower depth that it does at a deeper depth until you simply run out of volume to send air from the lungs to the eustacian tubes. Ear injuries often occur when divers not used to the feeling of pressure at depth try to forcefully clear their ears. It isn't due to depth, it's improper equalization. Most people can't dive because they don't know how to equalize. Many who try to equalize often do it wrong and injur themselves. I perforated my ear drum at 95 feet by pushing too hard. Now I can dive that deep and equalize hands free. The first 30 feet I clear ten times, the last 30 feet I clear about three times.
rad!!!

Offline John

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Re: Ear problem
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2015, 07:29:12 PM »
I try not to dive irrational depths.
Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it. -Orwell

Offline Rick W

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Re: Ear problem
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2015, 07:51:46 PM »
Hey Rob.

Thanks for taking the time to explain. I don't think I gonna hit those depths, but I have a better picture of equalizing now.

I have a lot of equalizing issues. But I did the first few years of scuba too. I think now that it's just a matter of intelligent repetition.
There are no bad days at the beach.

Offline Rob102

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Re: Ear problem
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2015, 08:39:25 PM »
Hey Rob.

Thanks for taking the time to explain. I don't think I gonna hit those depths, but I have a better picture of equalizing now.

I have a lot of equalizing issues. But I did the first few years of scuba too. I think now that it's just a matter of intelligent repetition.

I've derailed this thread quite a bit, sorry DG, but this could use some elaboration. Clearing the ears doesn't need to be forceful. I use no force whatsoever. 

I may be mistaken, but here is how I see it. The pressure at depth compresses the lungs and that compressed air is equal to external pressure.  All you need to do is open the eustacian tubes to equalize the ears. The various techniques simply open the tubes and allow your inner pressure/air volume to equalize. By forcing air into the esophagus using the Frenzel or Valsalva the air pressure forces it's way into the eustacian tubes. If you can "flex" or voluntarily open the eustacian tubes the ears will equalize naturally. Of course the Frenzel will over pressure the inner ear, you get a good popping and it feels like your ears are pressure free. IMO this is somewhat overdoing it and after time the ears will respond by getting harder to clear or it may even damage them if you push too hard and you can end up with a perforation or fluid in the middle ear. Using VTO or hands free, the ears aren't over pressured from within and they are truely equalized. You can still feel a slight bit of pressure on the ears, but they are under pressure and that is the way they should feel.

I recommend that everyone try to learn VTO. It is easier on the ears. It frees up your hand. It just feels more natural and relaxed.

Offline CabKing65

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Re: Ear problem
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2015, 09:54:29 PM »
Dont Risk it man, Let them Ears Rest for a few Weeks !


AKA SnowKing, 

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