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Author Topic: Leg Cramps  (Read 11429 times)

Offline TheFlyingDutchman

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Re: Leg Cramps
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2015, 06:46:56 AM »
With only a few full days of diving since picking up the spear pros from Matt, the most immediate difference was how much more endurance I had since the switch! Usually I'd be beat after 6+ hours of diving. Totally worth the investment
-Aaron Sturtevant

Offline Duckfoot

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Re: Leg Cramps
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2015, 01:46:26 PM »
I am all for training during the week especially dynamic apnea in a pool.

This should probably be a new thread, but...

Matt -  Do you have a specific workout that you do?
If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea.  –Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Offline the_derek

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Re: Leg Cramps
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2015, 01:57:38 PM »
I am all for training during the week especially dynamic apnea in a pool.

This should probably be a new thread, but...

Matt -  Do you have a specific workout that you do?

Shake Weight!
Death is very often referred to as a good career move.

-Buddy Holly

Insta  @_the_derek_

Offline Dustinfulmer1

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Re: Leg Cramps
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2015, 05:30:56 PM »
Obviously, water, stretch, exercise and some new fins would be first on my checklist, but I do keep mustard packets with me just incase me or a buddy get a random cramp. Cuz they work.

Offline Mike n

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Re: Leg Cramps
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2015, 09:26:09 PM »
I don't cramp when I dive now, but I used to.

Cramp cures I have fund effective are:

Pickle Juice - Straight from the pickle bottle.  If you have a nearly empty bottle of pickles with a lot of juice, drink it before your next dive with a  big glass of water.

Apple cider vinegar/honey/water is the best though.  Mix a couple ounces of vinegar with a table spoon of honey and top off with a cup or two of water.    It works.

Try them out as cramp relief and a prescriptive measure before diving.

MN

Offline Duckfoot

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Re: Leg Cramps
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2015, 03:51:59 PM »
I am all for training during the week especially dynamic apnea in a pool.

This should probably be a new thread, but...

Matt -  Do you have a specific workout that you do?

Shake Weight!


geezzzzz...

I'll explain - This is what I do:

Dry Land - Elliptical or whatever cardio machine, 1/2 hr - max incline and/or resistance (for weight): 15 sec breath holds on the 2:00 - my older-dude HR at 130 min.

In Pool - Increasing intervals (depending on comfort) starting with 30 sec - relaxed kick w/fins, ending with 2:00 intervals - relaxed kick. (rest @ 1.0 - 1.5 x interval; longer the interval = more rest) normal breathing between intervals. I'm curious about the breathing between intervals -- should I do 3 sec in, 6 sec out (double)?

Wish I could make the class you offered, Matt. it would probably answer all my questions!  ... someday.



« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 04:08:12 PM by Duckfoot »
If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea.  –Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Offline underwater1

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Re: Leg Cramps
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2015, 04:49:07 PM »
My dynamic apnea workout looks like this:
ten laps freestyle with no fins to warm up.
ten 60 ft. underwater lengths with fins to further warm up.
ten 120 ft. underwater lengths with fins

I try to do the dynamic apnea swimming as slow and fluid as I can.  If I stall at the turnaround, I can get 120 feet swim to last 60 seconds.

All dynamic apnea is done following the breath up and safety protocol I learned in a PFI Freediving class.  Following this protocol, I am not significantly winded after each underwater distance.

I workout with a buddy if I want to push myself.  A buddy of mine and I shadowed each other doing 300 ft. dynamic apnea lengths a while back.  Mine was super slow.  His was as fast he could go at the end.

I would not suggest anyone push themselves without taking a freediving class where you learn your limits and the signs of near shallow water blackouts.  Having a buddy shadow you in the pool is important if you are pushing it.  Pool blackout happen.  I workout well within my safe range when I am not swimming with a spotter.  World record holders have died alone in the pool.  It is important to not let oneself get cocky.

I do dynamic apnea every other day.  I swim freestyle laps without fins on the days when I don't do dynamic apnea in the pool or can't get in the ocean.

Dynamic apnea training is good for leg and breath hold conditioning.  It will also likely improve your confidence and knowledge about your capacity for underwater swimming.


Offline Duckfoot

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Re: Leg Cramps
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2015, 06:46:04 PM »
Thanks Tom. That's a solid workout.

I usually do my training alone and never, never allow myself to feel stressed while apnea training. I'd love to take one but there aren't any near-by freediving classes for me so most of what I rely on is my personal history - I have a good idea of my limits after 40+ years diving. But I also know how easy it is to get cocky, though OF COURSE that never happens to me. I workout almost daily with a 70% effort half mile swim before a relaxed 1/4 mile kick with or without fins wearing an 11 lb belt. Apnea training takes another 1/4 mile - on average. Some days the sauna is all I can accomplish, and feel damn good about getting to the gym - so I convince myself.
Here's the sad part, I dive infrequently enough that the training (pool or lake) SEEMS to hardly matter in the ocean. Any long duration away from salt water and the next ocean dive is all about re-acclamation. It's become a too familiar pattern for me. ... wetsuits suck.
If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea.  –Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Offline Luckydivah

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Re: Leg Cramps
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2015, 06:48:44 PM »
I am all for training during the week especially dynamic apnea in a pool.

This should probably be a new thread, but...

Matt -  Do you have a specific workout that you do?

Shake Weight!


geezzzzz...

I'll explain - This is what I do:

Dry Land - Elliptical or whatever cardio machine, 1/2 hr - max incline and/or resistance (for weight): 15 sec breath holds on the 2:00 - my older-dude HR at 130 min.

In Pool - Increasing intervals (depending on comfort) starting with 30 sec - relaxed kick w/fins, ending with 2:00 intervals - relaxed kick. (rest @ 1.0 - 1.5 x interval; longer the interval = more rest) normal breathing between intervals. I'm curious about the breathing between intervals -- should I do 3 sec in, 6 sec out (double)?

Wish I could make the class you offered, Matt. it would probably answer all my questions!  ... someday.

Hey sorry I've been swamped at the shop. Last 3 days I've been working from 8-8 pretty much.  If I get a break tonight I'll explain some workouts that will improve your leg strength as well as increase your ability to tolerate Co2 and hopefully help improve your overall lung capacity.

I will be hosting some line diving training sessions very soon if you want to join. I will be asking people to limit their depths to their ability and training while doing this.

Be on later,

Matt
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 06:53:39 PM by DamaniJ »

Offline John

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Re: Leg Cramps
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2015, 07:29:24 AM »
I too insist on doing my routine every day too. First thing after work I crack a beer. I'm not talking some light beer but a big bold ale with extra calories stuffed in before they put on the cap. Then I proceed to watch TV while consuming more beers with a high carb meal squeezed in. Then I make sure I get plenty of rest and lots of sleep.

I don't worry about SWB too much, even though much of my time is spent in "shallow water" but I do not ignore the need to breathe. Sometimes as soon as I hit the bottom i am thinking I need to head up just so I know I will be able to breathe soon!

Now my son had caught up to me and my teenage daughter is not too far behind so I guess I better start "pushing myself" if I don't want to get left behind!

I can tell that as I get older I may need to actually exercise to stay in shape. That's going to suck.
Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it. -Orwell

Offline willidru

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Re: Leg Cramps
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2015, 08:12:21 AM »
I have been prone to leg cramps as well. One thing I learned in my FII class was kick with your hips instead of more of bicycle motion. It has made a big difference focusing on form and cramps.

Offline underwater1

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Re: Leg Cramps
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2015, 03:38:02 PM »
I too insist on doing my routine every day too. First thing after work I crack a beer. I'm not talking some light beer but a big bold ale with extra calories stuffed in before they put on the cap. Then I proceed to watch TV while consuming more beers with a high carb meal squeezed in. Then I make sure I get plenty of rest and lots of sleep.

I don't worry about SWB too much, even though much of my time is spent in "shallow water" but I do not ignore the need to breathe. Sometimes as soon as I hit the bottom i am thinking I need to head up just so I know I will be able to breathe soon!

Now my son had caught up to me and my teenage daughter is not too far behind so I guess I better start "pushing myself" if I don't want to get left behind!

I can tell that as I get older I may need to actually exercise to stay in shape. That's going to suck.

LMFAO!

Offline Luckydivah

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Re: Leg Cramps
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2015, 05:52:09 PM »
I swim with a Masters swim team in Walnut Creek so it is pretty easy to get a great workout going.  The daily workout averages 2300-3000 yards a day.  I usually swim the first half of every workout and work on a lot of hypoxic breathing...3-5-7-9-7-5-3. While doing this I try to remain relaxed in the set and focus on being streamlined and using the least amount of energy as possible.  The turns are the kicker and I do not blow my air out and focus on long streamlines and cutting through the water.

When I decide to put fins on I am at the mercy of the workout.  If we are doing a set of 4 x 100' on 1:45, 4 x 50's on :50 and 4 x 25's on :30 I decide to break it up in cycles of 2/1/1.  On the 100's I do 25yards dynamic apnea no breathing followed by 15M off each wall.  I do this for the first 2, kick on my back breathing the entire 3rd 100 and then repeat for 4.  For the 50's I do 25 Dynamic, 1 breath at turn then Dynamic again. Same style 2 50's like this 1 recovery breathing and then 1 more same style.  For the 25's I do 2 no breather but full torque simulating the feeling of coming up from a deep dive as the lactic acid builds, 3 is relaxed and then same for 4.

Sometimes I choose to kick on back using dolphin or flutter for a workout and focus on leg strength and not breath hold.  The type of training I do works more of the Co2 tolerance vs O2 tolerance sets.  I experience contractions quite regularly during workouts but make a habit of taking time in between sets to clear the Co2 out of my system.  O2 tolerance training would be holding my breath longer with less recovery time.  Co2 training is same or similar breath hold with less recovery time.  I personally tend to experience contractions early whether they are Co2 contractions, depth contractions or cold contractions I am not sure so I train for them a lot.

Make sure if you do Dynamic Apnea you have a spotter with you.  I tend to like to train to do broken sets.  If I was going to attempt 125M Dynamic Apnea I would train for it by doing it broken instead of pushing for max training sets.  I would do something like 50M with :15R, 50M with :10R, 25M :10R 25M.  This is how we trained for certain events in swimming.  If you wanted to get better at the 100 Freestyle you don't swim 100's over and over.  You break them up, 50 long and strong, short rest 25 all out because 3rd lap is the hardest and the all out coming home since everyone swims hard home.  Key is to always be relaxed and not let the technique fall apart as you are coming home and the lactic acid is building up in your body and your lungs are screaming.  I transfer this to diving.....just my training style!

Enjoy,

Matt

Offline Stinkbait

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Re: Leg Cramps
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2015, 07:59:30 AM »
Hydrate and stretch before you dive. I had my calf lock up on me around 40 ft one day it felt like someone hit my leg with a hammer. I stretch every dive now and I'm solid.

Offline underwater1

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Re: Leg Cramps
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2015, 11:10:45 AM »
It is also useful to stretch the calf muscles periodically between dives.  This can be done easily during your breath up routine by pulling on one fin tip at time while pushing away with that heal.

 

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