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Author Topic: Differences among Pathos - open pro v. laser open pro, and sniper  (Read 369 times)

Offline Kshang

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I've been using wood guns so far, but am considering getting a Pathos open muzzle 60-75 aluminum gun, mostly for the local NorCal hole hunting. 

I looked at Pathos' official website, but cannot seem to figure out any key differences between open pro and laser open pro--the ergonomic handle on the laser open pro being a prominent exception.  After searching the forum, it looks like most local spearos use laser open pro, so wanted to learn any significant differences before I go get one. 

Also, if anybody happens to know the key differences in a Pathos sniper, please do also let me know. 

Thanks in advance!

Offline kodama

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Re: Differences among Pathos - open pro v. laser open pro, and sniper
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2019, 02:51:40 AM »
The Pathos Sniper has the D’Angelo 3 handle which I personally like the most since the trigger to palm distance is smaller than on the others. With the other two handles it is harder to reach the trigger making it difficult to align your arm well with the gun. Also the molded handle is not ideal for me.
However all of the above is probably not that relevant on such a short gun with limited power.

The Sniper has an extruded alu barrel and enclosed track. I have the roller version 95 and like how the flopper rests on the muzzle but I am not sure if that is also the case on the shorter non roller guns. Probably not since the shaft is thinner and longer.

For a small gun I prefer the universal handles because they allow a better grip when shooting in unconventional positions, for example when your head is deep in a hole and you are going to pull the trigger with your tumb and the gun is right next to your head.

But....
in the end it is not about the gun...

Offline kodama

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Re: Differences among Pathos - open pro v. laser open pro, and sniper
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2019, 03:53:34 AM »
The difference between Open Pro and Laser Open Pro is the handle. The first has the D’Angelo 1 handle the other the anatomic D’Angelo 2.

Barrel shaft and bands seem exactly the same.

I think the more interesting gun is the Laser Competition with the universal handle and a single 17.5 band for fast reloads.

But again it is all personal preference and all of these will shoot fish just as easily.

Offline Kshang

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Re: Differences among Pathos - open pro v. laser open pro, and sniper
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2019, 10:32:18 AM »
So it's just the handle that's different, and the trigger mechanism stays the same for all 3 models?  I noticed how they described the trigger mech as setting 7 cm of length back supposedly adding to the power of the gun, so assume it stayed the same through these models. 

Open pro and laser open pro actually also have the tip of the flopper resting on the muzzle, at least in the pictures shown on their website.  This appeals to me--I don't know for sure if the double flopper currently on my gun compromises the accuracy, but believe the resting flopper might help--then again it could be the case that it makes a material difference only for shorter and less powerful guns, and that it's not a big deal for longer and more power ones. 

If the difference is this minor (don't really mind a universal handle, as it can come handy (literally) in hole hunting), I suppose I can pick up whichever one happens to offer the best price. 

Offline Salifornia

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Re: Differences among Pathos - open pro v. laser open pro, and sniper
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2019, 01:27:33 PM »
Trigger mech is plastic on the pathos open pro, Deangelo 1 handle.  Laser open pro has the Deangelo 2 handle stainless steel mech.  I personally love this handle and really fits nicely with me sausage fingers;). I might be parting with a pathos 60 laser open pro here soon.  If your are interested let me know. 

Offline Kshang

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Re: Differences among Pathos - open pro v. laser open pro, and sniper
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2019, 05:54:07 PM »
Hi Kodama,

Does the enclosed track on a Sniper cause any inconvenience for you?  I've been using closed muzzle guns, so part of the reason for wanting to try out an open muzzle gun is so that the shaft is free from the barrel in point blank shots, for instance for hole hunting.  Sniper is open muzzle by design, but I wonder if the enclosed track would pretty much lead to same result/experience as for closed muzzle guns in this regard. 

Further, when you load the shaft, do you have to stick it in from the top of the muzzle, more similar to a closed muzzle gun than an open muzzle?  Of course, there could be differences between a Sniper and a Sniper Roller, but I assume the muzzle and track design is the same between the two versions.  Hopefully you can shed some light on this.

Thanks,

The Pathos Sniper has the D’Angelo 3 handle which I personally like the most since the trigger to palm distance is smaller than on the others. With the other two handles it is harder to reach the trigger making it difficult to align your arm well with the gun. Also the molded handle is not ideal for me.
However all of the above is probably not that relevant on such a short gun with limited power.

The Sniper has an extruded alu barrel and enclosed track. I have the roller version 95 and like how the flopper rests on the muzzle but I am not sure if that is also the case on the shorter non roller guns. Probably not since the shaft is thinner and longer.

For a small gun I prefer the universal handles because they allow a better grip when shooting in unconventional positions, for example when your head is deep in a hole and you are going to pull the trigger with your tumb and the gun is right next to your head.

But....
in the end it is not about the gun...

Offline kodama

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Re: Differences among Pathos - open pro v. laser open pro, and sniper
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2019, 09:28:10 PM »
Hi Kodama,

Does the enclosed track on a Sniper cause any inconvenience for you?  I've been using closed muzzle guns, so part of the reason for wanting to try out an open muzzle gun is so that the shaft is free from the barrel in point blank shots, for instance for hole hunting.  Sniper is open muzzle by design, but I wonder if the enclosed track would pretty much lead to same result/experience as for closed muzzle guns in this regard. 

Further, when you load the shaft, do you have to stick it in from the top of the muzzle, more similar to a closed muzzle gun than an open muzzle?  Of course, there could be differences between a Sniper and a Sniper Roller, but I assume the muzzle and track design is the same between the two versions.  Hopefully you can shed some light on this.

Thanks,



The enclosed track never caused any real inconvenience for me. I must admit that I don’t really see the benefit of it. All of my other guns have open tracks and muzzles and in contrast to what most people say I find that loading open is faster and easier once you developed good habits.

My guess is that they used a closed track on the Sniper roller since it’s easy to overpower them causing the shaft to flex.

Only on a longer gun the stiffer profile of the Sniper may show it’s benefits on a short gun I see no added value at all.

Yes you have to load it from the tip of the gun. The last couple of inches of the track are open though.

A small issue with the Sniper barrel is the paint that chips easily. Also in the track there are lots of chips missing after some years of intense use. The paint on the Lasers has a structure to it and seems a lot more durable. Again I wonder if affects performance at all. Personally I couldn’t care less about the paint on my gun.

Offline TheKeeneroo

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Re: Differences among Pathos - open pro v. laser open pro, and sniper
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2019, 07:21:48 AM »
I have a pathos open pro 60 with the universal handle that you're welcome to use any time to get familiar with it. I have a 14 and a 16mm band on it.

FLOPPER: Along with what others have added, I'll chime in on something that I think is a great feature about the flopper resting on the barrel. I use a float line because 90% of the time, I mark holes with my gun, go up catch my breath and dive back down to check the holes. However, at least a couple times a dive, something else catches my eye and I want to pull my gun up off the rocks. When I'm using my wood 80 with open track and double flopper, it often will catch on something when I'm pulling it up, due to the floppers being loose. With the Pathos, it is not loose and won't catch as easily.

MUZZLE/TRACK: for a shorter gun, you definitely don't want an enclosed track or a closed muzzle. I've had a big ling break my muzzle before because I didn't throw my gun back fast enough (to clear the spear from the muzzle). Esp for things like halibut and shallow holes, you don't need another thing to worry about. My open track 80 has become super easy to reload so I don't find it an issue.

Overall, if you're looking for a good gun for norcal, I'd personally steer you toward a 75 instead of a 60. There are a few times a dive where you'll see a big olive or big blue lingering on the outside of a school and it's simply out of range for the 60. I bring my 60 as a back up but almost always use my 75 or 80 for hole hunting here. I never have an issue with range.

I live in Pacific Grove, so let me know if you're diving in my neck of the water and you can use my pathos.
"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails." - William Arthur Ward

Eric, Pacific Grove
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Century Free Diver, Level 1 Free Dive Cert, EANx
DOTY 2018 - 3rd Place
Bring the Ling 2018 - 1st Place (=P)

Offline JRidley

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Re: Differences among Pathos - open pro v. laser open pro, and sniper
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2019, 12:29:17 PM »
Here are some photos:
 
Gun at Top is Open Pro 75
Gun in Middle is Laser Carbon Open 75
Bottom is Open Carbon 75

All have 7mm x 105cm shafts

As previously mentioned, all have floppers that rest on muzzle

Laser has stainless steel cassette and trigger

Open Pro and Open Carbon have stainless trigger mech. components inside a plastic cassette with plastic trigger.

I am definitely changing the D'Angelo II handle to the universal grip since I like to shoot both left and right handed and, (as previously mentioned),  I also don't like how far the trigger is spaced on the ergonomic grip D'Angelo II compared to the D'Angelo I handle.  I am hoping the universal grip will resolve this issue for me.

Offline kodama

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Re: Differences among Pathos - open pro v. laser open pro, and sniper
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2019, 01:03:08 PM »
Just out of curiosity but why do you have 3 guns of the same length that are almost identical?

Offline Salifornia

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Re: Differences among Pathos - open pro v. laser open pro, and sniper
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2019, 03:00:43 PM »
Please let me know if you are letting go of that Deangelo 2 handle I am looking for one to build up a gun🤙🏽

Offline JRidley

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Re: Differences among Pathos - open pro v. laser open pro, and sniper
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2019, 04:31:37 PM »
You Betcha - I just have to order the universal handle either thru Red Triangle or Spear America.

Offline Kshang

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Re: Differences among Pathos - open pro v. laser open pro, and sniper
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2019, 08:19:22 PM »
Very helpful.  Thanks for all the information! 

I actually placed an order for Pathos Sniper yesterday, but I'm not sure if the order will go through.  Sometime ScubaStore sends me message saying they don't ship to the US so will cancel an order, other times it goes through fine.  We'll see. 

In light of TheKeeneroo's comment, it may actually not be such a bad thing if the order gets cancelled, because Sniper does have an enclosed track and the flopper (upon a closer look on the official website) does not rest on the muzzle, but hangs just short of it.  I suppose that's the reason we see so many laser open pro used in NorCal, and much less for the other models. 

TheKeeneroo: I live close to Redwood City, but goes spearfishing in Carmel regularly.  I would love to explore some of the spots in Pacific Grove, if you'd be so kind to show me.  Only dove at San Carlos beach for my freediving class open water session, and the other time at Perkins Park on a poor vis day (3-5 ft), and predictably got nothing.   :D

Offline TheKeeneroo

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Re: Differences among Pathos - open pro v. laser open pro, and sniper
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2019, 07:45:17 AM »
I'll be diving this area (likely carmel/northern sur) on Friday for a short window (from 1p-4p) and possibly a super early short dive on Saturday (6:30a-9a). I have a dive buddy in town but he has business plans so we're trying to dive in between meetings!
"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails." - William Arthur Ward

Eric, Pacific Grove
Instagram - @thekeeneroo    Facebook - @Ekeener1
Century Free Diver, Level 1 Free Dive Cert, EANx
DOTY 2018 - 3rd Place
Bring the Ling 2018 - 1st Place (=P)

Offline Kshang

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Re: Differences among Pathos - open pro v. laser open pro, and sniper
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2019, 09:33:03 AM »
I'll probably be down there either Saturday or Sunday, but later in the day (the drive takes me two hours each way--I certainly envy you for having all the honey holes at your doorstep). 

Rain check?  Maybe next time.  I have a 9-5 job, so can only do weekends.  High swells and rough seas typically cut my chance by half.  Will reach out next time and see if you are up for a dive together. 

 

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