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Author Topic: Carbon guns for hole hunting  (Read 1556 times)

Offline jjjjeremy

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2018, 08:28:32 PM »
I'm really just curious because I think roller guns are a neat concept, but can anyone tell me why one wouldn't want a 50cm roller gun other than the fact that it costs more than a standard gun? What is so laughable about the idea? It seems like roller guns down to 60cm are pretty popular in Europe, I've even found some cool youtube videos of guys hole hunting with them.

You just don’t need the power.  I’ve lost NorCal fish from dull spear tips, but never for lack of power.  I don’t want my tips driving into rocks and cracks any harder than they need to.

I can only think of one fish I’ve shot in NorCal that I couldn’t have taken with a single band 60cm gun.  That was a sheephead on a wildly clear and flat day in Big Sur when I took out my 110 because it may be the only chance I’d ever have in my life to dive up here with that gun.  It was also the only fish I shot that day because I only wanted to take open water shots.

Offline charlierobinton

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2018, 09:56:44 AM »
Those are both good points. What I'm really hearing is that you don't want a gun that is overpowered. Right now I'm mainly using a 75cm gun, which I think has the perfect amount of range and power, but just for me it still feels long whet I get down on the bottom poking around holes and such. I would agree that up here most of the fish I take are right at the end of my spear tip or within a few feet.

It makes sense that you wouldn't want or need added range or a ridiculous amount of power, but the power and range you get from a roller gun is still relative to the same factors as a standard gun (length of gun, length of bands, band stretch, specific to rollers pretension in the bands). It wouldn't be hard to set up a 50cm gun that shoots with similar force to a standard 75. Then I would have a gun that is more compact and easier to maneuver in the water, easier and faster to load than my 2 banded 75, shoots smoother and more accurately with the same amount of power.

I also agree that a standard 60cm gun would probably be a fine compromise and address all the same issues, but then I wouldn't have anything to tinker and experiment with!

Offline kodama

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2018, 10:37:38 AM »
t wouldn't be hard to set up a 50cm gun that shoots with similar force to a standard 75. Then I would have a gun that is more compact and easier to maneuver in the water, easier and faster to load than my 2 banded 75, shoots smoother and more accurately with the same amount of power.


The roller might be shorter but with the bands on top and bottom not necessarily easier to maneuver. Definitely not easier nor faster to load. Accuracy can be questioned too with rollers inherently shooting low albeit the short ones with their limited range suffer less from this problem.

For hole hunting a classic setup seems hard to beat it seems to me. I love the simplicity.

I have been using a Pathos Sniper roller 95 as a reef gun for some years now and I am moving back to classic guns.


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Offline kodama

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2018, 10:46:50 AM »
Actually we where talking carbon guns..

What about shaft overhang? The length of the gun is one thing but to maneuver it around holes the total length matters.
For example my present Seatec snake65 uses the same spear as the carbon 70 gun I am interested in. So more gun and band stretch vs less gun and more overhang.
The 65 has two 16mm bands vs the 70 one 18mm band.

Before you all get on the fence I am just being analytical and have no illusions that one gun over the other will yield me more fish! It is all about the skills anyway. Just sharing my thoughts and questions.


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Offline ryang85

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2018, 10:51:49 AM »
t wouldn't be hard to set up a 50cm gun that shoots with similar force to a standard 75. Then I would have a gun that is more compact and easier to maneuver in the water, easier and faster to load than my 2 banded 75, shoots smoother and more accurately with the same amount of power.


The roller might be shorter but with the bands on top and bottom not necessarily easier to maneuver. Definitely not easier nor faster to load. Accuracy can be questioned too with rollers inherently shooting low albeit the short ones with their limited range suffer less from this problem.

For hole hunting a classic setup seems hard to beat it seems to me. I love the simplicity.

I have been using a Pathos Sniper roller 95 as a reef gun for some years now and I am moving back to classic guns.


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On big guns the rollers are slower to load than a double band  but  on my 50, i can surface and reload in roughly 30 seconds. The smaller size seems to make wrapping and loading easier than a 2 banders. I prefer the way it shoots, it shoots a lot more accurate  than a 60 for me (thats why i chopped it and some people dont like the way they shoot) and i have the option to increase shaft velocity without shaft wobble since high acceleration is what causes shaft wobble. Roller guns have lower acceleration with higher time inverval of positive acceleration so the shaft can leave a smaller gun at a higher velocity and effective range.  If i need it, which is a whole different thing. I prefer all my guns to be all small and powerful as possible for that length.


And shaft overhang i have yet to figure out a mathematical reasoning for it.  It is important but i can't figure out how to find a perfect overhang.  It helps with aim, but also helps with shaft wobble. Some guys say say between %10 and %20 the length of the shaft. My gun is overhung roughly 10 cm 

« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 11:05:45 AM by ryang85 »

Offline charlierobinton

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2018, 11:28:20 AM »
Sorry to hijack your thread Kodama. I saw that someone was using a roller gun I'm interested in and had some questions about it!

Regarding overhang, in such a short gun I definitely don't notice any difference. The 75cm pathos gun I have came with a 105 shaft and I also bought a 110 Rob Allen shaft as a spare (the pathos wasn't available at the time). Theoretically there should be a difference but I don't notice it at all when using either shaft. They shoot the same and the gun feels the same.

I disagree with rollers being harder to load especially at that short of a length. It all depends on how you set it up, and what you want to get out of the gun. I just built a 100cm roller and set up with 14mm bands stretched to 200% pretension it is faster and requires less force to load than my 75cm gun with two 16mm bands.

Offline the_derek

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2018, 11:38:42 AM »
ryan, what head do you have on it? pics?
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Offline ryang85

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2018, 07:00:32 PM »
ryan, what head do you have on it? pics?
Mantis head, just plastic bushings so there's hardly anything prone to break. 

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Offline kodama

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2018, 06:22:35 AM »
Now that I see your gun I understand. My comparison was based on the roller which I am used to, the Pathos Sniper roller that next to it’s roller band has a kicker band as well.


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