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Author Topic: Carbon guns for hole hunting  (Read 1917 times)

Offline charlierobinton

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2018, 03:25:01 PM »
+1 On the Pathos Laser Open Pro 75. It is such a great gun and the ergonomic handle is amazing. Some people don't like the handle, but I love it so much I bought a handle/trigger mech. to put it on a carbon barrel with a Mannysub roller head and made a longer gun for Socal and Baja.

I don't think I would choose carbon for a short gun because of the aforementioned issues. Leaving it on the bottom getting raked on the rocks, and needing it to be heavy enough to stay down there I think pretty much require an aluminum gun. For bigger guns in more open water I can see the advantage of having a lower levered weight which is why I chose it for the new gun, but I haven't used it yet so I have no feedback on the durability!

Offline Rob102

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2018, 11:49:00 AM »
The only benefit of carbon fiber guns are the strength to weight ratio, which for the spearo, translates to barrel stiffness. Longer barreled aluminum guns can flex slightly affecting accuracy. Carbon fiber being stiffer allows for a light accurate long gun rather than wooden gun.

Hole hunting on the other hand is easier with a short gun. Most guns, wood, aluminum and carbon fiber are neutrally or slightly negatively buoyant with the shaft in, so while using a floatline they only sink so far until the buoyancy of the floatline overcomes the negative buoyancy of the shaft and the gun drifts.

You can manage this several ways: use a floatline and add a reel to weigh the gun down, use a reel instead of a floatline, add some lead in some fashion to the gun, or get a negatively buoyant wooden gun.

If you decide to go with a carbon fiber gun just be sure to pull the gun out of the hole after the shot if you have to retrieve the gun on a later drop. If you don’t wedge it into cracks you’ll probably never hurt it.

Just based on cost I’d go with aluminum. If you want a hole marker add a reel. If you want a gun for a specific job that’ll last forever go with wood.  Keep in mind that whatever you get is going to get banged up.

Offline kodama

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2018, 01:14:23 PM »
Thanks for the advice Rob! Makes sense. The Seatec I have been using for years and actually is a wonderful hole gun. The barrel is an aluminum pipe covered with a foamy material coated with a very durable finish. I have been really rough with it and it only shows wear on the muzzle and aluminum part of the upper receiver.
Still on the fence though. I wonder whether scratches or dings would actually compromise the integrity of a cf gun? 


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Offline kodama

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2018, 01:32:19 PM »

Here is a picture of the gun after almost five years of intense use. Just to give you guys an idea of how nice this one is. I actually have no real need for anything else except that I am curious about trying something new and exotic.
Seatec being Italian is not that common in Cali but I would recommend this one any day.


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Offline Rob102

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2018, 07:14:33 PM »
I don’t know if scratches or dings would hurt. The carbon fiber is impregnated, so unless it’s a serious ding or gouge I doubt it. I have beat the hell out of carbon fiber fins and they took years of abuse before I ever broke one. I think you could touch up any scratches with a clear coat.

Personally, I use a pathos 60cm aluminum gun as my primary and a 75cm aluminum as a backup. It’s not like we are shooting wahoo or Yellow Tail out here so there’s nothing I can’t take with a 60. I wouldn’t go carbon fiber unless the gun was 90cm or longer, just because there’s no benefit. I have around 10 longer cf guns. They look cool so I don’t want to scratch them up, but, if I could get a 60 in carbon fiber for the same price as aluminum, I would without a doubt get the carbon fiber.

Offline kodama

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2018, 11:18:43 AM »
Didn’t look at it that way but it makes total sense. My carbon fiber fins are all scratched up and are doing great. No problem whatsoever. Maybe I will go the cf route after all.


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Offline ryang85

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2018, 10:09:31 PM »
I don’t know if scratches or dings would hurt. The carbon fiber is impregnated, so unless it’s a serious ding or gouge I doubt it. I have beat the hell out of carbon fiber fins and they took years of abuse before I ever broke one. I think you could touch up any scratches with a clear coat.

Personally, I use a pathos 60cm aluminum gun as my primary and a 75cm aluminum as a backup. It’s not like we are shooting wahoo or Yellow Tail out here so there’s nothing I can’t take with a 60. I wouldn’t go carbon fiber unless the gun was 90cm or longer, just because there’s no benefit. I have around 10 longer cf guns. They look cool so I don’t want to scratch them up, but, if I could get a 60 in carbon fiber for the same price as aluminum, I would without a doubt get the carbon fiber.
I thought this was already beat to death on a separate thread, any gun under 100cm CF has no benefits, its not more "light" since buoyancy dosnt rely on weight. It relys on density.  Either way it has to be weighted down in order to not float.  And drag is equivalent because the pipe diameter is the same.
Carbon works better harmonically preventing recoil and is very easy to ballast compared to wood.  Which is only helpful on large bluewater guns.

I used to like my 82 but since i switched to a 50cm roller I'm a big fan of smaller guns for norcal.  Unless vis is over 25 feet or I'm going deep  i think anything over a 60  aluminium barrel isnt neccessary.

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« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 11:23:15 AM by ryang85 »

Offline charlierobinton

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2018, 11:20:23 AM »
Hey Ryang85 how do you like your little 50 roller? Do you mind me asking what head you use? I was thinking about building one and my only concern was destroying the roller head in the rocks if I leave the gun on the bottom etc. How's yours holding up?

cheers,

Charlie

Offline Rob102

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2018, 09:07:19 PM »
I don’t know if scratches or dings would hurt. The carbon fiber is impregnated, so unless it’s a serious ding or gouge I doubt it. I have beat the hell out of carbon fiber fins and they took years of abuse before I ever broke one. I think you could touch up any scratches with a clear coat.

Personally, I use a pathos 60cm aluminum gun as my primary and a 75cm aluminum as a backup. It’s not like we are shooting wahoo or Yellow Tail out here so there’s nothing I can’t take with a 60. I wouldn’t go carbon fiber unless the gun was 90cm or longer, just because there’s no benefit. I have around 10 longer cf guns. They look cool so I don’t want to scratch them up, but, if I could get a 60 in carbon fiber for the same price as aluminum, I would without a doubt get the carbon fiber.
I thought this was already beat to death on a separate thread, any gun under 100cm CF has no benefits, its not more "light" since buoyancy dosnt rely on weight. It relys on density.  Either way it has to be weighted down in order to not float.  And drag is equivalent because the pipe diameter is the same.
Carbon works better harmonically preventing recoil and is very easy to ballast compared to wood.  Which is only helpful on large bluewater guns.

I used to like my 82 but since i switched to a 50cm roller I'm a big fan of smaller guns for norcal.  Unless vis is over 25 feet or I'm going deep  i think anything over a 60  aluminium barrel isnt neccessary.

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Since you don’t mind sharing your extensive experience and correcting me, even though this topic has been “beat to death on a separate thread”, please elaborate on how carbon fiber works better harmonically to reduce recoil. After you are done with that, perhaps you can explain why in the fuk anyone needs a 50cm roller and what advantages it has.

Offline the_derek

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2018, 08:25:47 AM »
why in the fuk anyone needs a 50cm roller and what advantages it has.

looks rad?
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Offline charlierobinton

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2018, 10:21:38 AM »
why in the fuk anyone needs a 50cm roller and what advantages it has.

looks rad?

They do look rad and trying new stuff is fun! I think that's a good enough reason to have one.

Offline jjjjeremy

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2018, 01:21:43 PM »
I don’t know if scratches or dings would hurt. The carbon fiber is impregnated, so unless it’s a serious ding or gouge I doubt it. I have beat the hell out of carbon fiber fins and they took years of abuse before I ever broke one. I think you could touch up any scratches with a clear coat.

Personally, I use a pathos 60cm aluminum gun as my primary and a 75cm aluminum as a backup. It’s not like we are shooting wahoo or Yellow Tail out here so there’s nothing I can’t take with a 60. I wouldn’t go carbon fiber unless the gun was 90cm or longer, just because there’s no benefit. I have around 10 longer cf guns. They look cool so I don’t want to scratch them up, but, if I could get a 60 in carbon fiber for the same price as aluminum, I would without a doubt get the carbon fiber.
I thought this was already beat to death on a separate thread, any gun under 100cm CF has no benefits, its not more "light" since buoyancy dosnt rely on weight. It relys on density.  Either way it has to be weighted down in order to not float.  And drag is equivalent because the pipe diameter is the same.
Carbon works better harmonically preventing recoil and is very easy to ballast compared to wood.  Which is only helpful on large bluewater guns.

I used to like my 82 but since i switched to a 50cm roller I'm a big fan of smaller guns for norcal.  Unless vis is over 25 feet or I'm going deep  i think anything over a 60  aluminium barrel isnt neccessary.

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Since you don’t mind sharing your extensive experience and correcting me, even though this topic has been “beat to death on a separate thread”, please elaborate on how carbon fiber works better harmonically to reduce recoil. After you are done with that, perhaps you can explain why in the fuk anyone needs a 50cm roller and what advantages it has.

Tuna that live in holes, Rob.

Offline TheKeeneroo

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2018, 04:28:45 PM »
why in the fuk anyone needs a 50cm roller and what advantages it has.

looks rad?

bahahah... and also +1  :P
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Offline charlierobinton

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2018, 05:50:45 PM »
I'm really just curious because I think roller guns are a neat concept, but can anyone tell me why one wouldn't want a 50cm roller gun other than the fact that it costs more than a standard gun? What is so laughable about the idea? It seems like roller guns down to 60cm are pretty popular in Europe, I've even found some cool youtube videos of guys hole hunting with them.

I won't pretend I have a ton of knowledge or experience on the subject, but from the hunting I've done here with my 75cm standard I can say without a doubt that if I could take 15cm off the length and still shoot with the same power and accuracy I would in a heartbeat. This is exactly why I was thinking of making one.

Offline Rob102

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Re: Carbon guns for hole hunting
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2018, 08:10:08 PM »
I'm really just curious because I think roller guns are a neat concept, but can anyone tell me why one wouldn't want a 50cm roller gun other than the fact that it costs more than a standard gun? What is so laughable about the idea? It seems like roller guns down to 60cm are pretty popular in Europe, I've even found some cool youtube videos of guys hole hunting with them.

I won't pretend I have a ton of knowledge or experience on the subject, but from the hunting I've done here with my 75cm standard I can say without a doubt that if I could take 15cm off the length and still shoot with the same power and accuracy I would in a heartbeat. This is exactly why I was thinking of making one.

IMO is fairly pointless to have a roller gun for fish the just sit there and look at you. The only reason I can think to have one is to increase your range, but I personally rarely make a shot over 6 feet. If you can’t get closer than that to a fish then the problem is technique, not the gun.  Besides, overpowering a shaft or a gun lessens it’s accuracy. You can use whatever you want. Basically we are talking about shooting fish in the face from a couple feet away. It’s not rocket surgery.

 

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