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Author Topic: Pathos Sniper Roller VS. Laser Carbon Open VS. Open Carbon  (Read 462 times)

Offline JRidley

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Hello,
Can the community assist me in this process, please? I am trying to decide between the Pathos Sniper VS. Sniper-R (roller) VS. Laser Carbon Roller VS. Laser Open Carbon VS. Pathos Open Carbon (D'Angelo 1 Handle). For a 75cm, the cost to me would be about $280, $300, $260, $250, and $210 respectively (less for shorter lengths). Each additional 10 cm = $10 (so 85cm speargun costs $290, $310, $270, $260, $220 respectively).  I definitely like the D'Angelo 3 handle better than the D'Angelo 2.  D'Angelo 1 is cheaper and reliable but not all stainless components but also doesn't suffer from the sear galling damage under heavy loads like the D'Angelo 2.  Any news of Pathos releasing a sniper carbon?
Hunting will be in the North Bay Area and occasionally central and southern CA.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Offline JackSquirt

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Re: Pathos Sniper Roller VS. Laser Carbon Open VS. Open Carbon
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2018, 02:27:32 AM »
Do you own any other spearguns? If this is your first speargun, a 75cm is perfect for norcal down to Big Sur.

If you have a norcal gun in the 75cm range, I’d recommend going with an 82cm or 90cm for additional range. An 82 or 90 is plenty of power for Big Sur or some bigger species that don’t sit around hiding under rocks.

If you’re looking to target pelagics in Southern California with a pipe gun, go with nothing less than a 110cm. White seabass and yellowtail are often hunted with 130cm or larger wooden guns and midhandles.

Disclaimer: I have little to no credibility on the topic of fish killing.
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Offline TimBekk

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Re: Pathos Sniper Roller VS. Laser Carbon Open VS. Open Carbon
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2018, 07:14:53 AM »
I had a sniper for awhile, but for NorCal I preferred the skinny tube of open laser pro. I have a 60 and a 90 open laser pro that go with me on most every dive around here. I use the 60cm 95% of time while hunting up North. In Monterey i use the 60 more,  but lately it is getting closer to 50% of the time I have the 90 in my hand.

Thus hard to imagine going wrong with a 75 open laser pro as all around gun.

I see no value in a roller around here, and i like the aluminum just fine. On these short guns I don't think carbon is a functional feature, but it is a cool feature.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 07:20:48 AM by TimBekk »

Offline Rob102

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Re: Pathos Sniper Roller VS. Laser Carbon Open VS. Open Carbon
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2018, 08:15:50 AM »
What are you planning to shoot and where are you planning on diving? 

The D’Angelo 2 is ergonomic to fit one hand, that is either your right hand or your left. The original D’Angelo handle is a “straight cut” design that will accommodate either hand. This may seem irrelevant, but on occasion while hole hunting you may find that you have to switch hands. As for construction, they are both rear mech and I think they are both stainless, unless what I believe is a D’Angelo 1 is actually a D’Angelo 3.

I’m don’t use roller guns, but the only use for one is to get more range out of a smaller gun. I shoot a pathos 60. I usually put one band on the rest tab and one on the next tab back. It has plenty of power for hole hunting. If I want more power I pull the band on the rest tab back further. I shoot all the NorCal species with the 60 including Vermillion. If I were going to get a roller for NorCal I would put it on a 50cm gun.   In cencal I use a pathos 75. Hypothetically you could do a roller for the longer shots and still use it for a NorCal gun, but I’m getting into the realm where I don’t know what I’m talking about so I’ll leave it to guys that use rollers.

What I will say is that I prefer to carry two guns. There are times when you need both: two fish on the same rock, you need a back up holding shot, broken wishbone, lost a gun. For these reasons I always carry a pathos 60 and a 75.

Offline ryang85

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Re: Pathos Sniper Roller VS. Laser Carbon Open VS. Open Carbon
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2018, 11:59:09 AM »
I have a pathos 115 sniper, 82 lazer pro, and a 50 open( chopped 75) roller i just built. Then a collection of homemade bluewater  roller guns i hand built. Its all preference but the 50 i just built is going to be my go-to gun from now on except in deeper  clear water. It has impressive range, almost equal to my 82.  I would consider doing that over a sniper.
I would not get a enclosed track sniper for norcal, enclosed tracks are only beneficial if you are using a shaft with a ton of power and need to prevent shaft whip. On a small gun the friction from the track would just be a loss of power.   Even on larger guns it can effect power slightly.
I really like my 115 sniper for big sur and baja though. It is really maneuverable but kicks a ton and deffiantly about 15cm longer than it needs to be. A 82 would deffiantly get you by though. There was a few fish i would have never got with my 82 but i may have been a little sneakier if i had my small gun. It is a sort of perfect size for all type of pelagic and reef fish.

I used a 82 as an all around gun for the longest time and it worked perfect for norcal. I could use it in bad vis in shallow water or clean vis hunting verms out deep.

Avoid carbon pipe guns for nocal unless you really want it, it will only get scatched and cracked easier than aluminum. The whole point of carbon is that the harmonics of the shaft will be better matched by the felexible carbon and absorbed into the gun preventing shaft movement off the rail. Our guns are so small it dosnt matter until you get into the 90cm range.  Even then the only time it will make a noticeable difference is with the the big bluewater guns. Which are engineered to absorb recoil and be perfectly balasted which help prevent shaft movement along with the carbon fiber.

My recomendation is to keep it simple at possible. Open track and roller if you want it.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 12:07:51 PM by ryang85 »

Offline pclark

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Re: Pathos Sniper Roller VS. Laser Carbon Open VS. Open Carbon
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2018, 02:50:41 PM »
If you live in Petaluma and plan on mainly hunting in the north bay area, I would'nt get a carbon gun or a roller.  No need to spend extra money on something that will brake quicker when entering and exiting our rocky shores or for power you don't need. If you want a Pathos get the Laser Open Pro.  I shoot a Rob Allen 70 up north, and only rarely would rather have a 60.  My RA's have been great guns never giving me any problems, I'v never had a Pathos. 

About length you won't find one gun that will be work well in southern and northern california, but you could find one to work in central and northern california (70/75).  If you plan on going north of the gate most of the time id get a 60.

Rollers are fun but not necessary unless your shooting big fish in southern california.  I'd spend a little more and get two guns, a 60-75 and a 110-130 carbon.  You can always go roller later if you want more power on the longer gun. 

Spearfishing is expensive especially when you start going to socal, so don't cheap out on guns when its only one of many things you'll need. 

Offline JRidley

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Re: Pathos Sniper Roller VS. Laser Carbon Open VS. Open Carbon
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2018, 03:17:14 PM »
Thank you to everyone for their input. Very much appreciated. There are a lot of aspects I did not consider as being a factor.  I originally purchased a Seac T-Combat 105cm, Seac Ocean 75cm and Seac Ocean 85cm aluminum pipe guns but, as mentioned above, realized I was cheaping out by getting inferior guns on clearance instead of upgrading to the Pathos instead.  I suppose my only concern is the sear galling issue of the D'Angelo II trigger mechanism so I emailed Petros at SpearAmerica to ask if it is possible to get a Pathos Open Pro with D'Angelo III trigger mechanism/universal grip handle since I shoot both left and right.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 03:24:36 PM by JRidley »

Offline ryang85

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Re: Pathos Sniper Roller VS. Laser Carbon Open VS. Open Carbon
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2018, 03:47:34 PM »
Thank you to everyone for their input. Very much appreciated. There are a lot of aspects I did not consider as being a factor.  I originally purchased a Seac T-Combat 105cm, Seac Ocean 75cm and Seac Ocean 85cm aluminum pipe guns but, as mentioned above, realized I was cheaping out by getting inferior guns on clearance instead of upgrading to the Pathos instead.  I suppose my only concern is the sear galling issue of the D'Angelo II trigger mechanism so I emailed Petros at SpearAmerica to ask if it is possible to get a Pathos Open Pro with D'Angelo III trigger mechanism/universal grip handle since I shoot both left and right.
Parviz at red triangle in petaluma can help you out if you want to check out guns in person, i think subsurface in fort bragg sells pathos as well, they are both good shops.
 I would recommend  getting the full stainless mech ( diangelo III?) But ive never heard of any problems with the prior versions.
Ermes sub makes a sweet roller mech that drops in and removes that stupid pin that pathos has as a line release.  Deffiantly a good option on a bigger bluewater/socal gun so you can put i breakaway on it. Not practical for this side of the state though.

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Offline Rob102

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Re: Pathos Sniper Roller VS. Laser Carbon Open VS. Open Carbon
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2018, 04:30:11 PM »
Ryan, are you sure about that statement you made about flexible carbon fiber and shaft harmonics?

Offline ryang85

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Re: Pathos Sniper Roller VS. Laser Carbon Open VS. Open Carbon
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2018, 07:08:12 PM »
Ryan, are you sure about that statement you made about flexible carbon fiber and shaft harmonics?
To be honest,  no.
I saw a few articles translated from Italian on carbon vs aluminum barrels.  The aluminum barrels flexed up and down in a shock wave, making the spear jump a tiny bit.  Carbon didnt have this tendency to carry a shockwave as much as the entire barrel  because it compressed a microscopic   amount.  I did a little bit of research before i built my wood guns.  I dont have much knowledge on the properties of carbon fiber other than what the internet has told me.
Maby its bs marketing thing,  i can name a handful of items that are sold to us that are debatatly effective.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 07:13:00 PM by ryang85 »

Offline JRidley

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Re: Pathos Sniper Roller VS. Laser Carbon Open VS. Open Carbon
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2018, 12:25:28 AM »
Petros' reply to my concerns about the D'Angelo II sear galling potential:

"So let me explain to you some misunceptions now. The D'Angelo 3 handle is the handle on the Sniper speargun. The trigger in the handle is the same trigger like the D'Angelo 2. What you are describing happens on every single gun after use of hard shafts like Rob Allen. If you are reffering to SpearQ8  observations keep in mind he is maxing out the gun overpowering it. The reason he is using Pathos and you can verify with him (I already did) is because no other gun could handle what he is doing and he tried most every gun. I have been using my competition gun for the better part of 8 years now with no issues. Same with all my divers. We have had one gun ever come back for repair with a trigger issue and all we did was replace the trigger with a new trigger and the problem was solved.

I would really not be worried about this at all."

 

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