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Author Topic: Noob Equalization question  (Read 2683 times)

Offline Rob102

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Re: Noob Equalization question
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2018, 09:37:36 AM »
If you recall my advice was to see a doctor but that perforations heal on their own, and you are correct; your risk taking has nothing to do with anatomy or anything else with any logical basis. You do what you want regardless. I just find it mildly ironic that you give third hand advice from a divers insurance company that you would never listen to, derived your own conclusion and applied out it of context to the act of flying which it never had anything to do with in the first place.

The OP asked if equalizing was like popping your ears at altitude, which it is and the mechanism and techniques are the same. If you have a fundamental problem with the valsalva, I understand, and there are more gentle and even passive alternatives, but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t work. The valsalva been done successfully millions of times by divers and fliers alike since diving and flying began, long before the Toynbee or Frenzel were developed through today.

Your turn.  :-*

Offline Mike n

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Re: Noob Equalization question
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2018, 11:13:39 AM »
Your tube openings are 1/8” x 2. So, 1/4” x 15 = 3.75 psi.

Check your units.  :P


(in)x(in)x(lbs)/[(in)x(in)]=lbs

MN


Offline the_derek

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Re: Noob Equalization question
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2018, 11:41:31 AM »
If you recall my advice was to see a doctor but that perforations heal on their own, and you are correct; your risk taking has nothing to do with anatomy or anything else with any logical basis. You do what you want regardless. I just find it mildly ironic that you give third hand advice from a divers insurance company that you would never listen to, derived your own conclusion and applied out it of context to the act of flying which it never had anything to do with in the first place.

The OP asked if equalizing was like popping your ears at altitude, which it is and the mechanism and techniques are the same. If you have a fundamental problem with the valsalva, I understand, and there are more gentle and even passive alternatives, but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t work. The valsalva been done successfully millions of times by divers and fliers alike since diving and flying began, long before the Toynbee or Frenzel were developed through today.

Your turn.  :-*

I have boxing gloves... &or baby oil depending on how we want to settle this dispute ...

Death is very often referred to as a good career move.

-Buddy Holly

Insta  @_the_derek_

Offline Rob102

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Re: Noob Equalization question
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2018, 11:56:08 AM »
Your tube openings are 1/8” x 2. So, 1/4” x 15 = 3.75 psi.

Check your units.  :P


(in)x(in)x(lbs)/[(in)x(in)]=lbs

MN

Help me out Mike. After calculating the area of the tube orifice I’m coming up with 1.47psi per ear

Offline Rob102

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Re: Noob Equalization question
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2018, 11:57:40 AM »
If you recall my advice was to see a doctor but that perforations heal on their own, and you are correct; your risk taking has nothing to do with anatomy or anything else with any logical basis. You do what you want regardless. I just find it mildly ironic that you give third hand advice from a divers insurance company that you would never listen to, derived your own conclusion and applied out it of context to the act of flying which it never had anything to do with in the first place.

The OP asked if equalizing was like popping your ears at altitude, which it is and the mechanism and techniques are the same. If you have a fundamental problem with the valsalva, I understand, and there are more gentle and even passive alternatives, but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t work. The valsalva been done successfully millions of times by divers and fliers alike since diving and flying began, long before the Toynbee or Frenzel were developed through today.

Your turn.  :-*

I have boxing gloves... &or baby oil depending on how we want to settle this dispute ...



This is what happens when I can’t dive and I have an Internet connection.

Offline Rob102

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Offline Mike n

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Re: Noob Equalization question
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2018, 12:25:00 PM »
PSI is the force exerted over an area, any area.  Whey you multiply PSI (lbs/in^2)x an area (in^2) you are left with a total force (lbs).  The (in^2/in^2)  becomes 1 and the units are dropped from the solution, so the solution should be represented by only (lbs) pounds force, not pounds per sq.

Your tube openings are 1/8” x 2. So, 1/4” x 15 = 3.75 psi.

Check your units.  :P


(in)x(in)x(lbs)/[(in)x(in)]=lbs

MN

Help me out Mike. After calculating the area of the tube orifice I’m coming up with 1.47psi per ear

Offline MATT MATTISON

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Re: Noob Equalization question
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2018, 12:25:23 PM »


this is a entertaining !!!!
CHECK OUT MY YOU TUBE CHANNEL AT:
https://www.youtube.com/user/mattmattison/videos

Offline Rob102

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Re: Noob Equalization question
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2018, 01:24:12 PM »
PSI is the force exerted over an area, any area.  Whey you multiply PSI (lbs/in^2)x an area (in^2) you are left with a total force (lbs).  The (in^2/in^2)  becomes 1 and the units are dropped from the solution, so the solution should be represented by only (lbs) pounds force, not pounds per sq.

Your tube openings are 1/8” x 2. So, 1/4” x 15 = 3.75 psi.

Check your units.  :P


(in)x(in)x(lbs)/[(in)x(in)]=lbs

MN

Help me out Mike. After calculating the area of the tube orifice I’m coming up with 1.47psi per ear

So the answer is 15?

Offline Mike n

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Re: Noob Equalization question
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2018, 02:07:38 PM »
I think the force on the ear drum would be the difference in pressure across the ear drum (wet side to dry side) x the area of the ear drum.  I believe the area of the ear canal can be omitted since the pressure inside the body ( the bloody non-compressible fluid part) should be the same as the water pressure outside the body. 

Think of it this way, when using a fluid to force a piston to move, only the round area of the piston crown is used  to calculate the force exerted on the piston.  The cylinder walls do not play in to the calc.

So if you had big ears like Matt M and the ear drum were 1/4"x1/4" and the Dp were 15 PSI, then the force on the ear drum would be  about 0.937 pounds.

Clear as mud?

MN

MN

Offline Rob102

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Re: Noob Equalization question
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2018, 02:53:54 PM »
I think the force on the ear drum would be the difference in pressure across the ear drum (wet side to dry side) x the area of the ear drum.  I believe the area of the ear canal can be omitted since the pressure inside the body ( the bloody non-compressible fluid part) should be the same as the water pressure outside the body. 

Think of it this way, when using a fluid to force a piston to move, only the round area of the piston crown is used  to calculate the force exerted on the piston.  The cylinder walls do not play in to the calc.

So if you had big ears like Matt M and the ear drum were 1/4"x1/4" and the Dp were 15 PSI, then the force on the ear drum would be  about 0.937 pounds.

Clear as mud?

MN

MN

Clear, but...

Gio and I were debating the valsalva at altitude, not water pressure on the eardrum. I was describing the force applied to the inner ear via the Eustachian tubes, ergo 1/8” orifice which would calculate to .234lbs of applied force. Although small, it could still cause a barotrauma, but a person would really have to be pushing hard to cause injury.

Offline Rob102

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Re: Noob Equalization question
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2018, 03:51:34 PM »
I'll put my 30 years of diving experience against your necrophilia and everything you've ever read.

Offline the_derek

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Re: Noob Equalization question
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2018, 04:17:34 PM »
I'll put my 30 years of diving experience against your necrophilia and everything you've ever read.

30 years and you still don’t understand Boyle’s law and reverse blocks? I’d keep that to myself  ;D

was trying to find a funny necrophilia link... now I think the fbi just put me on a list....
Death is very often referred to as a good career move.

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Insta  @_the_derek_

Offline DG

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Re: Noob Equalization question
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2018, 04:35:47 PM »

was trying to find a funny necrophilia link... now I think the fbi just put me on a list....
You were already on the list. 

Offline the_derek

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Re: Noob Equalization question
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2018, 05:28:51 PM »

was trying to find a funny necrophilia link... now I think the fbi just put me on a list....
You were already on the list.

Bahahaha. Just a few texts back and forth with Derek and I think my phone needs to be burried at the bottom of the harbor.

hahah
Death is very often referred to as a good career move.

-Buddy Holly

Insta  @_the_derek_

 

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